TT noob with qestions

[bkettler]

I'm new to Time Trials but want to try it out this season. I've been to 4 DE events with the BMW club and have been autocrossing with them for about 6 years.

I understand I need to attend a PDX event before competing in Time Trials, but have a few questions:
-Is it possible to participate in PDX and get signed off to run in TT over the same weekend? When the time comes, do I register for both?
-Will there be a 2010 revision of the tech inspection form or is the April, 2009 revision still valid?
-I believe I read (in the forum?) that arm restraints are not required this season, is this true?

Thanks - can't wait to get back on the track!

[GingerGSR]

I'm new to Time Trials but want to try it out this season. I've been to 4 DE events with the BMW club and have been autocrossing with them for about 6 years.

I understand I need to attend a PDX event before competing in Time Trials, but have a few questions:

It sounds like you have enough experience to get a waiver for the PDX. Contact Grant Barclay ( GBarclay at aol dot com ) and fill him in on what you've done event wise.

-Is it possible to participate in PDX and get signed off to run in TT over the same weekend? When the time comes, do I register for both?

Yes. In fact our first event on Saturday, March 27th is an Advanced PDX. It’s a program to get drivers with some track experience (such as yourself) graduated to TT over the course of a weekend. The following Sunday we’re holding a regular TT so if you get signed off you can run in the TT with us. When reg opens, sign up for both then you’re covered and we’ll have an idea of how many to except for each event.

-Will there be a 2010 revision of the tech inspection form or is the April, 2009 revision still valid?

As far as the items we check it’s still the same. The checklist for 2010 should be coming out soon. Your best bet is to get an annual tech done at SCR up in Loveland or any of the other shops that perform them. The advantage of going to SCR is the Chief of Tech for TT is the owner of the shop so you’re in good hands there. Getting an annual also makes us tech inspectors very happy. All we need to do is check your paper work, verify your helmet and apply a couple stickers to your car and you're ready to go in 5 minutes.

-I believe I read (in the forum?) that arm restraints are not required this season, is this true?

That is true. We’ve dropped our requirement for arm restraints but we still strongly recommend them. Myself and others have sets that we can loan out, but for $25 they’re much cheaper than a crushed left arm.

Thanks - can't wait to get back on the track!

That is an understatement my friend!!! I’ve been working on my car non-stop since October getting ready for this seasons fun. All I have to do is apply some decals, rebuild my front calipers, make some suspension changes and I'm ready for tech inspection next week.

[ncaruso]

I may be mistaken, but I thought annual inspections were required this year

[delirium45]

when will the Colorado Region TT site (http://www.sccatimetrials.org/) be updated for 2010 ?

[bkettler]

Mark - thanks for all of the great information!

I'm almost ready too - need to bleed my brakes and order/install some harnesses, then off to tech!

[lmichael]

Mark - thanks for all of the great information!

I'm almost ready too - need to bleed my brakes and order/install some harnesses, then off to tech!

Brad,

Be sure that the harnesses you choose, and the way they are being mounted in the car, are legal for time trials. You don't want to spend $$$ unnecessarily...

For instance, my Schroth Rallye 4 clip in harness is not allowed without an anti-submarine strap and a rollcage in the car.

Later edit:

I may have mis-spoke... It looks like a 4 point harness without ASM is "discouraged", but not disallowed (according to the 2009 tech checklist).

[bkettler]

Lee - I was looking at the Schroth quick fit rallye 4:
http://soloracerdotcom.stores.yahoo.net/harnschrothfaq.html

It sounds like they do have a form of ASM built into their 4 point harness. However, after reading the time trials rule book, http://www.sccatimetrials.org/2008TTR.pdf, I just ended up with more questions than answers.

Is Time Trials considered Level 2 - Club Trials or Level 3- Track Trials?
12.1.1 States that 4-points are ok with ASM
12.1.9 States 2 inch shoulder belts can only be used by FIA approved belts with a HANS device. The Schroth's are 2-inch, without HANS and I don't know if they are FIA approved

I'm probably missing something but I would prefer to drive with the stability of a harness over the factory 3 points. Unfortunately, a roll bar just isn't going to happen right now either.

Brad,

Be sure that the harnesses you choose, and the way they are being mounted in the car, are legal for time trials. You don't want to spend $$$ unnecessarily...

For instance, my Schroth Rallye 4 clip in harness is not allowed without an anti-submarine strap and a rollcage in the car.

Later edit:

I may have mis-spoke... It looks like a 4 point harness without ASM is "discouraged", but not disallowed (according to the 2009 tech checklist).

[DaveK]

My opinion is that if you don't have extra bracing in your car (roll hoop minimum, roll cage preferred), you have no business wearing a 4 or more point harness. A stock seat belt is designed to allow your torso and head to move inwards should the roof cave in. If you've made your shoulders immobile by strapping in tightly with a harness, the only thing that's left to move is your head.

That being said...if you do put a cage in the car, make sure you do it right...not like these guys:

http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash02.jpg


Quick edit: I think for auto-x harnesses are great, but at the track where you're at a higher risk of a roll-over, what I said above applies.

Also, if you can, support the local shops that support racing in your area. Its nice to know if you need something "today" that there'll still be a shop around to help you out, or if you simply want to try stuff on before you buy to make sure things fit. Checkpoint Racing in Denver www.cp-racing.com sells all kinds of racing safety gear, and I'm sure SCR, Bimmerhaus, etc do as well.

Dave

[GingerGSR]

That being said...if you do put a cage in the car, make sure you do it right...not like these guys:

http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash02.jpg

But they were able to save 50# by putting in a "cheater" roll bar. :rolleyes:

I probably seemed like a good idea at the time. :cool:

[DaveK]

The roll cage structure sort of held up, it was the poorly tied in foot plates that caused the problem. Look closely in this pic:

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg

This is where I found the pics: http://forums.subdriven.com/zerothread?id=4624353

Dave

[jhadler]

Regarding 4 point harnesses...

The TTR allows 4 point harnesses if:

1) They are SFI/FIA certified.

-and-

2) They incorporate some form of submarining protection.

To date, the only 4 point harness that meets these criteria I know of is the Schroth Profi I think. Unless a change has been made this year, the Schroth Rallye belts are not SFI/FIA certified.

-Josh2

[Roland H]

The roll cage structure sort of held up, it was the poorly tied in foot plates that caused the problem. Look closely in this pic:

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg
Dave
Holy crap, those punched right through... :eek:

[ncaruso]

those guys lived......

[Roland H]

those guys lived......
how? :confused:

[GingerGSR]

how? :confused:

They lived alright, they're just 3 ft tall now.:D

Seriously, that is miraculous.

I hope I never have to test it but my cage is built with large plates at all attachment points and is tied into the A & B pillars and rear shock towers.

[ncaruso]

I remember ready about that crash some time agao. I think the there is a link in this thread that directs you too it. Apparently the Shop that built the car has a history of cutting corners.

[kc0stp]

how? :confused:
Stock seat belts allowed them to end up underneath the dash/hood high points that were still intact.