Tire Warmer / Passive Rule Change?

[lundgren]

Did SCCA change the rule for passive warmers for Solo and/or Pro Solo?

I'm wondering if it's legal this year to have a full car wrap (like you may have seen)... I could check the rule book, but I don't have it on me.. maybe somebody knows of the top of their head.

Was it just Pro's or all Solo they ruled against it?

[PaulL]

I don't think they consider full-wraps "active", do they?

From the Pro rulebook;

G. 16. Passive or active tire warmers are not allowed in Pre-Grid, Grid, or Stage Lanes.


From the Solo book;


6.11 PREHEATING TIRES


Pre-heating of tires prior to competition by electrically heated covers
or by similar means is prohibited.

[jhadler]

I beleive a "full wrap" is considered active if you have the car running while it is wrapped. Passive if the engine is off...

-Josh2

[Highlander]

I beleive a "full wrap" is considered active if you have the car running while it is wrapped. Passive if the engine is off...

-Josh2
I could argue that even with the engine off, it is active heating since the exhaust and engine are heatimg up the area contained by the tires. Looking at it from a thermal transfer standpoint, why is taking heat radiated by other car parts any different from heat radiated from a blanket?

BTW, I think the full car wrap should be outlawed. My car would probably benefit the most from something like this since the radiators exhaust into the wheelwells, but I still think it violates the spirit of the rule.

Just my 2c
Graeme

[jhadler]

I won't argue with you there Graeme, it's a pretty fine line... But at what point can you really draw the line. The brakes and wheels are radiating heat into the tires, but there is no source that is regenerating the heat lost. With the engine off, there is no recovery of lost heat from the exhaust and radiators cooling down. With the engine on, the heat loss is recovered by combustion of fuel.

It's all shades of gray, but I'd say the wrap is okay if the car is off, but not okay if it's running. Ahh... but what if you have automatic fans on the radiators, and they turn on even with the ingnition key removed? Still legal? I don't know...

-Josh2

[Highlander]

IAhh... but what if you have automatic fans on the radiators, and they turn on even with the ingnition key removed? Still legal? I don't know...

-Josh2

that's exactly how my car runs. Fans front and rear and all of them venting into the wheelwells. Hmmmmmm toasty! :)

[Bob Klingler]

While I can't locate the ProSolo Rule G. which Paul L quotes, it seems to me that it only indicates that tire warmers can't be used. A simple, non-electric tire blanket and a chassis wrap are actually not warmers. They add no energy so how could they warm tires? Instead, they are just poor "enclosures".

Unfortunately, what is written in the Pro rules may not be what was intended, and final interpretation or revision, at any time, is left to the National Staff.

[lundgren]

So it would appear that for Pro Solo, we wont' see ANY tire 'covers'. In Solo, we'll see the same ole we've seen for years including full wraps?

[aurorasti]

^^^That's the way I see it too.

[Built-By-Bones]

If the question is only regaqrding the ProSolo events and tirewarmers -here is what I know.

In late 05 the running order of the Pro's changed from 4 runs (2 L and 2 R) to 2 runs (1L/1R) then pre-grid the 2 more runs. repeated Sat PM and Sun AM - this may only have been at the Finale. I cannot remember if this happened at Wendover - obviously tire warmers were not an issue.

The cars were continually moved forward in pregrid making tire warmers a PITA.

2006 is back to the previous version of Pros - 4 runs then to impound or the 2 driver grid.

I'll try to remember to ask Cindi or Horward tomorrow

Think you are going to need warmers in July, Jeff ?

The Blackwatch racing bags are definitely not an issue as I saw them at SD and Fontana this year.

Here is a further question. (given that KS in late Sept is potentially cold)

Tire warming is NOT OK. Not off-site, not by artificial means, not by tire burnouts. Agreed.

Say I am worried about my tires being stolen? for arguments sake. And I store my tires in my RV all night with the heat at MAX. Legal? Protestable? Ethical? Faster? Safer? Can of worms?

:D

[JonathonBarton]

Has the additional benefit of making the driver lighter through loss of bodily fluid, though how much sleep you'd actually (not) get while sweating your bum off may offset any benefit. ;)

[Built-By-Bones]

Doug Gill (SCCA tech) was at the Atwater Pro. I mentioned the theme of this thread to him - here is his response, completely unofficial of course.

The SCCA has no control over what happens out of grid. While the supps forbid tire warming on site, there is nothing stopping a driver taking his car off site and putting some heat into the tires. In the same vein, there is nothing the SCCA can do if you decide to take your tires into your RV or hotel room at night.

The rules do state that a car must be present in grid in a timeous manner. At nationals this is about 45 minutes before the first car starts it run ( I cannot find the exact time in the rules - I think I have seen it in previous supps though) This prevents someone showing up with warm tires and taking advantage on their first runs.

Doug indicated that the SCCA does not excercise control over what happens in paddock. I even asked if "active" tire warmers would be legal in paddock. Doug stated that while the SCCA would not police what happened in paddock (indicating that the tire warmers would not be "illegal") the competitor would likely find themselves on the wrong side of a protest over "sportmanship".

I will be writing an email this week asking for clarification.