Video from HPR

[Maxx schlick]

A link to some in car footage from practice laps at HPR.
Thanks to Mark for posting to you tube for me.
Keith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-ZazBQvd8E

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o14/maxxschlick/High%20Plains/picture-23.jpg

[usakubko]

Passing zones? :p

[Shusterman]

After watching your video I am a little surprised you were not invited to watch the rest of the day. I am thinking it may be a good video for your private collection.

[Maxx schlick]

After watching your video I am a little surprised you were not invited to watch the rest of the day. I am thinking it may be a good video for your private collection.

I didn't pass anyone without a wave by. It is hard to see some wave bys in the video, but is much more visable in real life.
After turn 8 The Porsche did not hit the gas, practically pulled off the road and signaled me to pass him. I knew it was not proper, but it was safe so I took it. We were both wrong.

After turn 10 the Honda pulled off line and to the wrong side of the road, got off the gas and signaled me to pass him, again not proper etiquite, but safe, so done deal. We were both wrong.

Going into turn 4 following Mark Mauro, as we were passing the other car, that gave us 2 seperate wave bys, Mark knew I was behind him, and gave me the wave, a little close to the end of the zone, but no problem. We both knew that he would have to brake a little earlier than I would. Clean pass was completed long before the corner.

As for the RX7 at the end of the video, I was getting ready to pass him, but didn't pass him because he didn't seem to be very aware of what was happening. Didn't give me or the other car a wave by, even though we were on his bumper for a long time. I really don't think he was even using his mirrors. (Not a good thing when you are the slowest car on the track) I gave him plenty of time and room between us. Once he finally realized I was even there he kinda freaked and drove it into the dirt for no aperrant reason. It's not like I was real close to him, there was more than a full car width between us, side to side.

If you are on the interstate and someone is driving 45mph in the left lane, you are not supposed to ever pass on the right side, but what are you going to do?

At a Nasa event at Pueblo I had an instructor (the group leader in HPDE 3, of all people) who was talking on a hand held radio, get on track right in between the fastest car and me, who were running real close together (at about a buck forty five going down the straightaway into turn 1). I had to jamb the brakes and slowed to his crawl pace, followed him thru a couple of turns, and then he finally, adamantly, and frantically, signaled me to pass him in a no passing zone (4 to 5). I hesitated because I knew he was the big boss, and I knew it was wrong to pass in that section, and thought I might be being set up. But after he still did not hit the gas and signaled a pass again, I took it and got around him.
We talked about the incident at the download, and he admitted that he screwed up about 10 different ways, and that I made the right move, considering the circumstances.

Rules are rules but sometimes you have to adapt to the circumstances and make a split second decision.

[GingerGSR]

Was this not the instructor practice day on Saturday not the PDX/TT on Sunday? If so, we were supposed to try passing on some of the shorter sections to see if it would be do-able for PDX/TT the next day. Based on what we felt good about determined where the passing zones would be for the Sunday event:
IIRC
Front straight
Highway straight
Short chute between T-6 & T-7
Up The Ladder between T-10 and The Corkscrew

[LoCore]

This video and discussion shows why we spend so much time in SCCA PDX/CTT discussing our expectations around passing protocol and passing zones.

Also, different clubs and groups within a club may have different passing procedures--also important to know what is expected so no one is surprised.

There's little room for confusion with the speed that is possible at HPR and PMP, and especially so when cars with large speed disparities are on track such as we have in SCCA PDX/CTT.

Regarding passing, let me be clear about expectations in SCCA PDX/CTT: passing occurs in only the passing zones discussed at the driver's meeting, and only with a point by. You will be black-flagged if spotted doing otherwise; and there are more eyes than just the corner workers watching.

Another variable between clubs/events is passing protocol, specifically expected signals and sometimes passing on a specific side. For SCCA PDX/CTT our expectations for passing, we discuss at each event which signals are acceptible and what they mean.

As far as which side to pass on, we've tried different ways, and concluded that our preference is to mimic what one is likely to see in road racing--in other words, expect the car ahead of you to stay online, and the passing car will have to take the offline path. Right or left side will be obvious; offline will usually be the side to pass on. That said, the car giving the point by may decide otherwise, which is why SCCA PDX/CTT requires the wait for the point by, and the side on which the pass to be made is clear.

For SCCA PDX/CTT, rules are rules, and we expect drivers to take responsibility for following those rules as the default, as well as be responsible when an alternative is the right thing to do.

[LoCore]

Was this not the instructor practice day on Saturday not the PDX/TT on Sunday? If so, we were supposed to try passing on some of the shorter sections to see if it would be do-able for PDX/TT the next day. Based on what we felt good about determined where the passing zones would be for the Sunday event:
IIRC
Front straight
Highway straight
Short chute between T-6 & T-7
Up The Ladder between T-10 and The Corkscrew

Don't know about the video, but yes, during that Saturday passing zones were:
front staight
highway straight
t5-t6
t6-t7
t10-t11
t11-t13 (up the hill)

IIRC, we settled on all of those zones as OK except for having concerns about T11-T13 due to the restricted vision. We tried it, but we had drivers that were uncomfortable with it.

Passing in the Esses (9A/B/10) was and is defintely a no-no for SCCA PDX/CTT.

[gordon0412]

My impression was this was an instructor session, and every car passed seemed to know it was coming. I just came away wishing mine was a C6.

SCCA, and all clubs do a great job of making the rules clear. I try very hard to comply. Yet if your getting on a track there may be a time when what to do seems less than obvious. My very 1st HPDE session with NASA at PMP an older Nissan Z came out of 7 very slow, and acted as though he was driving off into the paddock (they use the exit out of 7). I knew I wasn't supposed to pass there, and had seen no raised fist, but had to make a decision, stop or practically so or go on. I got on the left edge and went on only to look in my mirror's and see him drive back on track. Apparently no one saw it, but I turned myself in.

The reason I should have stopped, and in my mind what's so critical about getting a point by is when I apologized to that driver during the download after, he told me he didn't see me until I went by. The last thing I want for HPDE, TT's, or I would think even racing is to be passing a car that doesn't know I'm there. Happens again, and I stay behind the car even if it backs up an entire session. That's one of the things the hot pits are for. It was a good lesson learned at fortunately a very small cost. I've simplified my rule - if there's ANY question don't pass. Period.

Since I'm in the TT forum thought I'd mention I did have a look at the past weekend's race results. I noted the names of two autocrosser's as having set new track records for their class, one of them in the driver's school on I think a novice permit. Awesome guys!

[mjmauro]

It had to be on Sunday, because I wasn't there on Saturday.

[GingerGSR]

It had to be on Sunday, because I wasn't there on Saturday.

OK.
I asked Keith for the date & session data and he said it was practice on 5/2. It must have been 5/3 TT Practice not the instructors practice. Our mistake.