Car Numbers & Class - a follow up from the drivers meeting...

[Solo2GS]

After the discussion of having better numbers at the drivers meeting this last event I thought I would post this again.

My static cling numbers have held on at over 140 MPH on the high speed track. They are easy to apply... Mist some water on the car, apply cling, squeegy, wipe excess water off. They simply peal off. When not on the car I apply them the same way to a piece of plexi glass. Mine have lasted years! No sticky material on the back of the cling or on what it needs to be stored on.

Usually $10/square foot in one color design. $15/square foot in multi color design.

Better then magnetic numbers or reusable sticky vinyl in my opinion.

Here is a picture of mine. You can design yours any way you want. If you are in this sport for more then one or two events I'd consider getting some made as its a cheap investment and looks much better then paper and tape!

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c169/qwik93awd/05242008_Autox/05242008_autox_04.jpg Click for larger image

My wife's store can easily create numbers to your design and/or specifications.

Static clings... (clear or solid colored)
Magnet based designs come in various sizes and pricing...
Vinyl is fairly inexpesive as well...

You can easily design your own numbers and class lettering in MS Word, Photoshop, or the likes. It can be simple or fancy its all up to you, just remember it needs to be clearly readable from a distance. Or you can simply specify color, font, and size (per guidelines below).

A tip for desiging in MS Word. Set page setup to landscape legal siz paper with minimum margins. Full sized font will be just under 8.5" tall (need to be min. 8"). If you want multi-colored or outlined try using the "WordArt" feature and you can creat outlines and shadowing... WordArt actually works best for all numbering/lettering as it will allow you to size it better on the page. Font size can be typed in to make it larger then the drop down boxes allow... Its rather easy if you play with it a little.

If getting a quote on a number/letter that is white and outlines (simular to mine) be sure to tell them that it is white outlined in a color. Otherwise on paper it just looks like a outlined number with a clear inside... Which is always an option too!

For two driver cars that run in different classes you can get a large "/" to place over the class not running. Way easier then tape as long as you have a spray bottle and squeegy!

For quotes please e-mail HERE. (usa0574@fedexkinkos.com)

Orders can be picked up, delivered to your door, or I can even deliver them to you at an event.

Remember SCCA guidelines state:
3.7 VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION
A. All vehicles must display numbers and class letters on both
sides, which must be readable by Timing & Scoring, Course, and
Grid workers at all times.

C. Class shall be represented by the upper-case abbreviated form
rather than be spelled out. Ladies’ classes shall be indicated by
the letter “L” following the class letters. (Example: “BSPL” instead
of “B Street Prepared Ladies”).

D. Numbers and class letters should be positioned next to each
other. All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on
windows. All numbers and class letters must use the same
typeface and the same color, and this color must provide adequate
contrast to the background color (see Appendix F for
examples).

E. Numbers must be a minimum of 8" high with a 1.25" stroke.
Class letters must be a minimum of 4" high with a 0.75" stroke.
In all cases, the height of the class letters must be between 25%
and 75% of the height of the numbers. Stroke width must be at
least 10% of the height. (See Appendix F.)

F. The “1” on two-driver cars and the “L” on Ladies class cars are
subject to all of the above requirements with regard to placement,
color, size, and stroke.

[Goku]

I may have missed this in the drivers meeting. But I think it would also be helpful to tell every driver that there numbers are hard to read. I don't know who would do this, T&S would probably be the best people to ask. But I think it would help allot if the driver knew his number setup was hard to see, even if they didn't think so.

[GingerGSR]

I may have missed this in the drivers meeting. But I think it would also be helpful to tell every driver that there numbers are hard to read. I don't know who would do this, T&S would probably be the best people to ask. But I think it would help allot if the driver knew his number setup was hard to see, even if they didn't think so.

In theory, they shouldn't pass tech if their numbers are hard to read. This weekend was the beginning of the "crack-down" per Mr. Pizzato.
On Sunday we made at least one Heat 4 driver remove his taped numbers and go get the printed paper ones from the grid box and apply them...

Be legible! Verwy, verwy legible! Eh eh eh eh eh eh eh :D

[Goku]

In theory, they shouldn't pass tech if their numbers are hard to read. This weekend was the beginning of the "crack-down" per Mr. Pizzato.
On Sunday we made at least one Heat 4 driver remove his taped numbers and go get the printed paper ones from the grid box and apply them...

Be legible! Verwy, verwy legible! Eh eh eh eh eh eh eh :D


Lol. Ok well as long as there is some enforcement going on, that should help solve the problem. I think the lack of enforcement before is what was causing the confusion.:D

[GingerGSR]

Lol. Ok well as long as there is some enforcement going on, that should help solve the problem. I think the lack of enforcement before is what was causing the confusion.:D

I agree.

I finally got off my duff and got new glasses so I can read them much, much better now.

I did notice that a few cars had their class designation "somewhat removed" from the car number. They were the proper size and all, but shouldn't they be right with the car numbers per the rules?

[Ceolmhor]

The single problem I see most often is red numbers on a blue car. That's a lot of color contrast, and viewed close up (e.g., by Tech), it may seem OK. Yet the lack of brightness contrast between blue and red with similar saturation can make this impossible to read from any real distance under many lighting circumstances. I would suggest that Tech look very critically at this sort of situation.

Actually, I would go so far as to say in general that the numbers *must* exhibit significant brightness constrast. Color contrast is not enough.

Rudy

[GingerGSR]

The single problem I see most often is red numbers on a blue car. That's a lot of color contrast, and viewed close up (e.g., by Tech), it may seem OK. Yet the lack of brightness contrast between blue and red with similar saturation can make this impossible to read from any real distance under many lighting circumstances. I would suggest that Tech look very critically at this sort of situation.

Actually, I would go so far as to say in general that the numbers *must* exhibit significant brightness constrast. Color contrast is not enough.

Rudy

Here is a color wheel that shows which colors are "opposite" of one another in the art world. It might help you to pick an appropriate color for your numbers...

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/GingerGSR/68sm%20RMSOLO/colorwheel.jpg

You should end up with something like this...

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/GingerGSR/68sm%20RMSOLO/IMG_8705-crop.jpg

They should be 50/50 legible... 50 mph at 50 ft!!! :D

[Ceolmhor]

Here is a color wheel that shows which colors are "opposite" of one another in the art world. It might help you to pick an appropriate color for your numbers...

OK, but my point was that if you rely on color contrast alone, without brightness contrast, we'll have trouble. Here's a good way to think about the problem, perhaps: If you took a black-and-white photo of the car with the numbers on it, the numbers should be very clearly visible in the photo. If they are, you're using brightness contrast, and the numbers will likely be visible to all, all the time. If you rely entirely on color contrast (e.g., red, blue, green of similar reflectivity), I can pretty much guarantee that there will be trouble under some circumstances.

Actually, your numbers provide a fairly good illustration. You've picked a green that really wouldn't work very well against the blue(?) of the car. But by adding the yellow (which adds a high level of brightness contrast), you've made it work quite well. The yellow works not primarily because it's on the opposite side of the color wheel (true as that may be), but because it's reflecting much more light. And if you used a single-color number, the yellow would also work quite satisfactorily. The green by itself would bomb.

Rudy

[Goku]

I have one thing else that is slightly annoying. Shouldn't it be Car number then Class?

Like:
34 AS
Not:
AS 34
?

Just a thought.

And I understand what your talking about Rudy. Like my car being silver and black numbers, those would still be readable in black and white, and as far as I know my numbers are readable.

[fast_eddie_72]

I ordered blue numbers for my red car. Looked really cool! But you couldn't read it at all. I bought some plastic paint and painted them white. Now they're great! That Rustolium paint for plastic worked really well on the vinyl numbers. So yeah, contrast is important.

[arniecoleman]

And if you used a single-color number . . .
Rudy

Which is required by the rules . . . :eek:

"3.7 VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION

D. Numbers and class letters should be positioned next to each
other. All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on
windows. All numbers and class letters must use the same
typeface and the same color, and this color must provide adequate
contrast to the background color (see Appendix F for
examples)."

[GingerGSR]

Which is required by the rules . . . :eek:

"3.7 VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION

D. Numbers and class letters should be positioned next to each
other. All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on
windows. All numbers and class letters must use the same
typeface and the same color, and this color must provide adequate
contrast to the background color (see Appendix F for
examples)."


And there you have it. Straight from the horses... mouth... Yeah, mouth. :D

[GingerGSR]

That Rustolium paint for plastic worked really well on the vinyl numbers.

I was at Home Depot today buying some spray paint and saw that there. I wondered if it would work on magnetic vinyl. Now I know. :)

[alby426]

Thank you guys to post about numbers.
Ron has a great solution with the static cling numbers that his wife can make. Please take advantage of this in-expensive solution (Thanks Ron).
As I mentioned Sunday, the pink numbers that were on the green Miata were a great cheap solution too. It can be a last minute way to get numbers done.
I will get the materials to make a series of numbers, take pictures of how to do it and post it here.

Don't forget that the paper numbers are for "Emergency" use, so don't count on having them when you get there: be prepared.
We did run out of numbers quickly.
If you absolutely need paper numbers, you may want to find a driver from a previous heat and ask to use theirs.

Thanks to everyone to help us with the effort again.

See you at the next event.

[usakubko]

Another thing to add... Make sure the numbers are not just visible but that they can stay put too! :p That goes for magnets and vinils. It took me a several tries before I found some good magnets that stick. While the "vent covers" from Home Depot work well for some, they might not work as good for others.

[Ceolmhor]

Which is required by the rules . . . :eek:

No, that's not what I meant. I understand that all the digits have to be the same color, but take a look at Mark's example (photo) above. That's an example of using two colors to display the numbers, one as foreground for the digits themselves, and one as background, but still part of the vinyl. I was talking about how it would be if Mark used only the digits (no background other than the car itself), and that's what I meant by one-color numbers. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Rudy

[Ceolmhor]

I have one thing else that is slightly annoying. Shouldn't it be Car number then Class?

Like:
34 AS
Not:
AS 34
?

The rules don't require that, and I often see folks (me included) putting the shorter class letters under the door handle, where there might not be enough room for the taller numbers. This causes the numbers to be to the left of the letters on the left side of the car, but the other way round on the right side. I don't think you'd want the rules to preclude this.

Rudy

[Goku]

The rules don't require that, and I often see folks (me included) putting the shorter class letters under the door handle, where there might not be enough room for the taller numbers. This causes the numbers to be to the left of the letters on the left side of the car, but the other way round on the right side. I don't think you'd want the rules to preclude this.

Rudy


no its just a petpeve. I like things to be consistant, I want all the cars to be number then class, and you can read it that way from both sides. I do this so its the read the same way no matter what side of my car your on. But then again i want to be taller...

Plus it makes running the computer easier for me...

[arniecoleman]

No, that's not what I meant. I understand that all the digits have to be the same color, but take a look at Mark's example (photo) above. That's an example of using two colors to display the numbers, one as foreground for the digits themselves, and one as background, but still part of the vinyl. I was talking about how it would be if Mark used only the digits (no background other than the car itself), and that's what I meant by one-color numbers. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Rudy

Unfortunately, there appears to be at least two ways to interpret "All numbers and class letters must use the same typeface and the same color." Note that it says "color" not "colors." Clearly, individual numbers/letters that are a different color from the others is not legal, but one could conclude that "two-tone" numbers like in your example are illegal, because the individual numbers/letters are not "one color."

My take is that the driver should want there to be absolutely no possibility of having their numbers/letters misread by T&S or corner workers. There's plenty of room on a car to express your individuality and creativity. Keep the numbers/letters as simple and clear as possible, and go crazy with the rest of the car . . .

[Matt Leicester]

Keep the numbers/letters as simple and clear as possible, and go crazy with the rest of the car . . .

Now if we all did that, we would end up with cars painted red / yellow / blue /green all on the same car! We wouldn't want that, now would we?;)

Matt Leicester

[arniecoleman]

. . . practicing what I preach, for a change!!! :D

[brunobus]

Just do what I do, black car, white numbers. Really doesn't get any better or easier than that. The ultimate in contrast.

[Chris_Swearingen]

Just do what I do, black car, white numbers. Really doesn't get any better or easier than that. The ultimate in contrast.
white car, BIG black numbers, and the SM2 following the numbers on both sides.

(sorry couldn't resist) I feel for Al. Timing and scoring and the course workers really do have a hard time if the numbers aren't legible. I got my REALLY BIG numbers while I was chief of tech, in an attempt to lead by example. Oh well...