Anyone sell titanium piping (ie exhaust)...?

[SubaDrew]

I tried to hijack the metal dealers thread, but not sure if people saw that.

Might be looking for some piping for a lightweight system (maybe with a supertrapp.

[Matt Leicester]

I can't help you with where to find Ti tubing, maybe call E.M. Jorgensen, but I will strongly caution you about making a Ti exhaust system! You don't just weld that stuff with a torch or a MIG, you need shielding gas on both sides of the metal you are welding. I haven't done it, so there are certainly people better educated than I am on the subject, but I think you need to TIG weld the tubing, with argon both from the TIG torch and another argon supply to the inside of the tubing. Much easier done by an exhaust manufacturer in their own controlled environment than under your car in the driveway... Titanium is awfully expensive to mess up the material while trying to glue it all together...

Also keep in mind that while light weight is always good, there are few places on your car where weight is going to hurt you less than under the car and in the middle of the wheelbase! Heck, by replacing your steel exhaust system with Ti, you probably raise your center of gravity!

Matt Leicester

[kwenzel]

I can't help you with where to find Ti tubing, maybe call E.M. Jorgensen, but I will strongly caution you about making a Ti exhaust system! You don't just weld that stuff with a torch or a MIG, you need shielding gas on both sides of the metal you are welding. I haven't done it, so there are certainly people better educated than I am on the subject, but I think you need to TIG weld the tubing, with argon both from the TIG torch and another argon supply to the inside of the tubing. Much easier done by an exhaust manufacturer in their own controlled environment than under your car in the driveway... Titanium is awfully expensive to mess up the material while trying to glue it all together...
Matt is quite right - you have to be careful welding Ti or it'll oxidize rapidly and badly. It used to be the case that aerospace TIG Ti welding took place in a totally sealed chamber (pressurized with argon), but these days you can get away with modified torches that give you trailing gas encapsulation of the weld - there was a guy named Wyatt Swaim (he's a consultant for Lincoln, does Ti welding for NASA, etc etc) at the PRI show who builds devices for this:

http://www.tigdepot.net/janda/products/productimage/1194404556_DSC00014%20JPG%20trail%20cups.JPG

Anyway, I think there are better ways to spend your money.

[Built-By-Bones]

Might be looking for some piping for a lightweight system (maybe with a supertrapp.

Just to be anal,

you are never going to find Ti piping (at least to my knowledge). Ti tube is available, but not really ideal for the reasons Kevin and Matt mention

Tube is for for carrying loads, like a roll cage. the size quoted, say 2" will refer to the outside diameter of the tube, and the following size, say x .120, will refer to the wall thickness of the tube.

Pipe is for carrying fluids. the size quoted, say 2", will refer to the inside diameter of the pipe (so you can figure out flow rates). Wall thickness or strength is determined by the schedule of the pipe, scedule 40 is pretty common.

Pipe is usually a lower quality iron, or low carbon steel. Tube is usually (not always) a higher quality steel, finding tube in iron is pretty rare.

As the 4x4 guys say, Tube is for cages, pipe is for poop.

[jhadler]

While I'm not a professional metallurgist, I will say that unless you've got an F1 level budget, fabricating a Ti exhaust is going to cost way more than it's worth. Ti is expensive, difficult to fabricate with (both machining and welding), and can be more brittle than steel (mild or SS).

The amount of weight savings that you will have on a street car compared with a nice thin walled stainless steel are pretty minimal, as Matt-bob said, all that weight is in the best possible place (down low and between the axles). And the cost will be dramatically higher. Sure, it's Titanium. And if you're making something to sell to people with more dollars than sense, then go for it. But if you're building it for yourself, save then extra $1k for race tires...

just my $0.02...

-Josh2

[SubaDrew]

ok... enough already.

I'll drop the idea. I just saw an area where my car could lose 30lbs or so and I briefly mentioned the idea to my sponsor. I know they sell exhaust lighter exhaust for my car for around $1k so I figured I'd see how much it would be if I got one custom (since my stainless steel custom was cheaper than the off-the-shelf system). The problem with an OTS lightweight exhausts is they're so loud and ugly.


But just seeing Grant type "pipe is for poop" made this whole thread worthwhile.

[pcharles]

fwiw.

The C5 Z06 only weighed 38 lbs less than the standard Corvette hardtop that it eclipsed in performance starting 2001. Nearly half of that savings was due to the replacement of the 46lb stainless steel exhaust with a 26lb Ti system.. 44% less weight.

Corvette did lots of things... thinner windshield, lighter wheels, different tires, less sound deadening material, delete radio antenna, new battery. Yet the exhaust replacement was responsible for half of the weight savings!

Does this mean that replacing your exhaust system with Ti is generally a good idea? No. Do I know anything about tig welding? No. Does the new Z06 continue to have a titanium system? No. Does the new Z06 weigh about the same as the old one? Yes.

-pat

[SubaDrew]

I didn't know the z06 already got rid of the ti exhaust. hmm


I know there are exhaust out there that I could get that only weigh 9 pounds (from the downpipe back). This would lose about 40 pounds off my car, but it'd be LOUD (like... uber loud). Easier bolt-on then new seats, about the same cost, and wouldn't hurt my butt on long trips (just me ears). That's a large part of why I was looking into one. But it's true that it is really low to the ground and likely wouldn't have a performance benefit similar to removing weight from within the cabin.

[blamkin]

C'mon people help the guy out.

Burns Stainless has both the piping (Inconel, not Ti, if memory serves) and a nice solution for welding out in the atmosphere.

Pricey but ridiculously light.

They made my header collector and the welding and quality are off the charts.

Autocrossers:p

[aleliaert]

Have you considered keeping the exhaust short to save weight? As I understand the rules, it would only have to be long enough to exit at some point behind the driver.

Putting a flange, round resonator and turndown after the midpipe should be pretty light - we have this combo on our Miata just after the cat and it's 6lbs. And that's for cheapo stuff, using thin-wall stainless parts would probably save another pound or two.

Do you have the lightest midpipe? I'll bet there are a lot out there for the WRX, maybe some weight weenies have weighed them all and posted results somewhere on the 'net... :)

[SubaDrew]

Have you considered keeping the exhaust short to save weight? As I understand the rules, it would only have to be long enough to exit at some point behind the driver.

Putting a flange, round resonator and turndown after the midpipe should be pretty light - we have this combo on our Miata just after the cat and it's 6lbs. And that's for cheapo stuff, using thin-wall stainless parts would probably save another pound or two.

Do you have the lightest midpipe? I'll bet there are a lot out there for the WRX, maybe some weight weenies have weighed them all and posted results somewhere on the 'net... :)

My "midpipe" is heavy, plus there's a highflow cat on there.

Big problem with the turn down since I don't trailer my car (yet).