I wanna go road racing!!

[ianacole]

I watched the SCCA USTCC (?) Racing this weekend out at Miller Motorsports Park (the Acura's did really well), and boy do I want to do that kind of racing. So, I've started researching some of the options out there and have been having some difficulties. Is Time Trials bumper-to-bumper racing? Reading through the rules I cannot quite figure out where my car fits. Is there a direct correlation to SM class in Solo II to one in Time Trials? At what point do I need to get a racing license.

If this is easier to discuss of a cup of Java, and someone is willing to spend the time, I'd be happy to buy.

[Jake Latham]

Hi Ian -

The best place to start learning about the various club racing things you can do in the SCCA is on their website:

http://www.scca.com/Club/Club.asp?IdS=013091-38D9320&x=030|010&~=

click on "Go Racing" to learn how to get started with actual wheel-to-wheel club racing.

To answer your question, Time Trials is not bumper-to-bumper/wheel-to-wheel racing, although you are on track with multiple cars at once. Passing only in certain zones, and you're not allowed to "contest" corners. But, it's a good way to get practice at high speed driving, before worrying about staying off the doors of the guy next to you.

There is a "Street Mod" class in Time Trials, but because it's a "modified" class, that means the safety requirements are much higher. Fire suits, fire systems, rollcages etc etc. So, most people run under the "Open Street Prepared" catch-all, which is a time-trials only thing.

Club racing classes are much different than solo classes - there aren't really any analogues.

When you start actual wheel-to-wheel racing, all cars require fire suits and fire supression systems, along with rollcages for safety. To go wheel-to-wheel (aka "club racing"), you have to do two racing schools with the SCCA (or other recognized racing school) to get your novice license before you're allowed to be on track with other maniacs like yourself. The cost is much higher, but so is the excitement and track time. Consider a $30 entry fee for solo, versus $100ish for a Time Trials, versus $150-$250 for club racing events.

You'll go through a LOT more tires, brakes, gas, and general wear-and-tear on your vehicle when racing on track, and if you go club racing, you can pretty much write off that car as a usable street car. Hence my personal decision to go with a full-on "real race car" when I started doing a lot more track running.

Hope that helps,

-Jake

[ianacole]

Thanks Jake. I have been reading through the SCCA site and that's where the confusion regarding my car classification began. I did see the requirement for the licensing, the two schools, as well as some of the additional car modification requirements. From the beginning I had been planning on putting a cage in. My goal is to be prepared to start the licensing process in 3 years. We're planning on an RV over the winter this year so we can start attending more national events next year. Then I can start looking at the needed modifications for my car.

[Jake Latham]

Ian -

Sounds like you've got a good plan in place. With the RV, you can tow the race car, so that will work pretty well.

One thing you might start looking into is what, if any, classes are available for you to run your car in SCCA club racing. Most of the club racing classes for production cars (aka doorslammers) are either frustratingly bass-ackwards, and pretty much locked in the 60's and 70's in terms of technology, (EP, GP, HP, etc) or they require a car that is less than 5 years old. (T1, T2, T3, SSB, SSC).

The other "race car that looks like a real car" classes are pretty much tube frame sillohuette cars (GT1, GT2, GTL etc) that have no relation to the production car they look like.

Then, there are the "real race car" classes that include the various Formula cars (FA, FC, FF, FM, F5, FV), sports racers (SRF, DSR, CSR, S2), and a few minor variants within those.

Finally, there are a couple of more "spec" classes, like Spec Miata (SM), American Sedan (big V8 thumpers), and a few others, I think.

Hence, my decision to get myself a DSR - it's the fastest/cheapest car for the $ in the SCCA.

So, for slightly older, slightly modified cars, like where you'd see a street prepared or street mod car in solo, there just aren't really any good fits.

So, suffice to say, you might want to look outside the SCCA if you're not willing to change cars - NASA seems to have a lot more classes that are relavant to racers that aren't members of the AARP...

-Jake

[ianacole]

:D That's what I was struggling with while looking at the rules. It's seemed like I would only get a year or two of racing on my car (at best) before it was relegated to the 4 events per year classification (which I can't remember off the top of my head). It also seemed the rules regarding some of the modifications would require me to undo some things to my car (like I could only run stock size brake rotors in Touring Class).

You mentioned NASA. I didn't realize they sanctioned wheel-to-wheel racing. I'll have to look into that sanctioning body. Do you know of any others?

[blrmotorsports]

Jake is pretty close on all points. The entry for the the July 4th double regional was $285. That gets you 2 pratice/qualifing sessions at 15-20 minutes each, and a 40 minute race each day. Oh.... I can't forget it also includes dinner at the track the first night.:)

You could race your car in regional races in ITE. You would need to install a cage, fire extinguisher and transponder. The cage would run you about $1500-2000 to have done. I really would suggest you have somebody that has built a few cages before to do it. That's one place you really don't want to skimp on cost or knowledge. A transponder will run $325-365 depending on wired or rechargable. In total your probably looking at $3500+/- to put a car on the track in IT(Improved Touring).

Like Jake said, you'll also need a SA rated helmet, fire suit, gloves, and shoes. That's another $500-$$$$$$.

Here's something to think about long and hard before you go road racing. DO NOT race any car that you aren't ready, willing or able to throw away. Because at any race you could total the car. Unlike the street, it doen't matter if you hit something/somebody, or if they hit you, you're fixing you own damage.

If I haven't scared you away completely, send me a PM and I could give you some more indepth answers.

[Jake Latham]

Ian -

other than SCCA and NASA, I know there is some marque specific sanctioning bodies like Porsche Club and BMW club, but beyond that, I don't know. My experience is pretty limited at this point.

Brian makes a good point too - you'd better be OK with balling it up, or the risk thereof. For me, that was another motivating factor towards going with the race car. Much cheaper and easier to repair than a street car.

I'd argue towards keeping this thread public, since it has always seemed to me that finding out how to take the steps between solo and club racing is an ill-marked pathway. Perhaps this will help somebody else in the future, too.

-Jake

[ianacole]

Thanks Brian. Part of the reason that I put the 3 year (actually it may only be two years, depending on whether or not I can get the car set up in time next year to do the licensing) time frame out there is to have my car completely mine by then. I stumbled across the http://www.ustcc.com website while perusing the NASA site ... guess what i'm aiming for now :). I had already been thinking about a cage, and there are a couple of good builders that deal a lot with VWs, so that's the direction I will be heading. My helmet is currently SA2000, so that should good for a couple more years. I was also planning on the transponder investment as it has always been my intention to do some sort of road racing with my car from the beginning. I had been hoping that Time Trials would be on again next years as a stepping point. So, only the suit was not an anticipated expense, and some sort of neck restraint system.

My goal has always been to get into some sort of road racing with my VW, the USTCC event this weekend just brought my goal into focus, watching the "stock" cars race around the track. I'm getting giddy just thinking about it.

[lmichael]

Ian,

Get a copy of the June 2006 edition of Grassroots Motorsports magazine. They had a good series of articles on how to start road racing. The title on the cover was "Let's Go Racing, A Step-By Step Guide".

I'm sure you can get a copy from grassrootsmotorsports.com or you can ask around for the June 2006 edition.

[ianacole]

Thanks Lee. I'll have to hit a library and make copies of those articles, unless someone can float me a copy for a short bit. Like a dolt, I've thrown all my GRMs away, as with all my subscriptions - if I don't throw them away very shortly after reading them, I end up with a couple tons of magazines that just sit in a pile somewhere.

[Warrtalon]

Ian, if you got that excited watching on TV, then you're doomed once you do your first HPDE. I've been building my way up for this very reason, and within NASA, I just got to HPDE4, which is the highest level we have before moving to racing or time trials. Since my car is a daily driver and won't get caged for a while, I'm only trying to get a time trial license. In a few years, with more experience and the Evo paid off, I'll cage it and go for real wheel-to-wheel racing.

For you, in the meantime, come to our NASA events and start in HPDE1. You get a full-time instructor along with classroom instruction. It's very organized and designed for helping people learn to drive their cars for real. I enjoy auto-x, but I really only do it, because I can actually compete in something real and do decent well. Road racing, though, requires a lot of buildup, experience, and then licensing. Now that I've gotten to the level of applying for a TT license, that's where most of my energy will go. I would have loved to have been competing in the National ProSolo, but I was instead at PMI for our 2-day track event getting evaluated for my move from group 3 to group 4. It is so much more fun, imo, but more expensive, harder on the car, less available, and not as easy to get to the level of actually competing.

[ianacole]

I was planning on talking to you ;)

Is the event Sept 30 - Oct 1 in Hastings, Nebraska? Can I start there, or do I need to do the events to go for my license all in the same year?

For all the reasons you've cited I'm on the 2~3 year plan before I will be able to head to the track. Car will be paid off this year, then comes the cage. Not sure what all this will do to my autocrossing, but, yeah, I get a rush of adrenaline just thinking about it.

[Warrtalon]

Nope, you can definitely sign up for Hastings. There is HPDE (High Performance Driver's Education) levels 1-4, Time Trials, and Racing. You won't need a cage or anything - just long pants and a helmet. You will just sign up for HPDE1 and have a blast. You won't need to worry about licensing or a cage for a few years, depending on how quickly you move up.

I blew out 4th gear in the 6spd last weekend, so I'm down for now, but if I get things put back together and ready to rock, then I'll be doing Hastings as my first fairly long distance event and will be getting evaluated for my TT license.

Another thing you can do is go to PMI for open track sessions, which are almost every weekday. It's $60 for 4hrs and $100 for 8hrs. YOu basically get the track to yourself to get as much practice as you want - there are usually only a few people there testing and tuning. We like to try and go as a group to make it more fun, but there's still so few people that you get more track time than you could ever use.

[jhadler]

Ian,

As has been said before, there are lots of avenues into W2W (wheel to wheel) racing. The SCCA Trials program is just one. We're thin on tracks here in COlorado for the time being, but that won't be stopping us. We are planning on an SCCA Club Trials event later this year, most likely at La Junta. The SCCA Trials program has four levels. PDX (Performance Driving Experience) is the first level, and can take pretty much all comers. It's a Driver's Ed event, with very controlled track conditions and instruction for all novice drivers. This is _not_ a competition event, not timed. The next step up is Club Trials. This is a competitive event that allows multiple cars on track at the same time. It allows street cars, and depending on class, has either heavy or light requirements on safety gear. Club Trials allows multiplpe cars on track, and allows passing, but only in designated passing areas, and there is no contesting of corners. All in all, it's a great way to take your street car to the track and compete. Next step up is Time Trials. This is reserved for full race cars (cages, fire suits etc.), and there are no restrictions on track, you share the corners with other drivers. The fourth level is Hillclimbs. We currently do not have any SCCA Hillclimbs in Colorado.

That being said, there are lots of ways to get on the track. But I definitely have to agree with the philosophy of "Don't take your car to the track unless you're prepared to walk away from it.". Club Trials (and events like it) are quite safe, but you are driving at high speed, and things can (and do) happen occasionally.

Feel free to ask more questions. We were just getting rolling with the local TT program when the track closures hit us, so give us a little time, we'll be back. :)

-Josh2

[ianacole]

Well, it's decided. I will have my pro license by the end of next season and have the car prepped in time for the 2008 season. The car will be paid off in the next few months so it can be pulled off the road completely. We'll be picking up an RV in January so we can start travelling.

Not sure if I'm going to compete in USTCC, GTS (both NASA), or do something with the SCCA yet, although the GTS series is the most appealing so far as I won't have to de-mod, de-tune my car. I'll be attending my first HPDE event in Hastings at the end of September. I'll also be contacting Judy Faass to attend one of her schools down at PMP, perhaps October.

Thanks for all the input. I'm positively giddy with excitement ;) I'm married to a way cool woman:D

[JHixon]

Spec 7 is still a way in to club racing, there are fully prepped cars available for much less than $5K and then all you need is personal equipment and licensing.

Spec 7s are definitely not the fastest cars around, but cheap and a lot of fun to drive. I went that route for a year and had more fun than any form of racing I ever tried. I just can't afford to travel to race.

The local rules for this class have recently changed to make the cars faster and lighter. Stripping is fun.

[JHixon]

I took her lessons for my first class and it was great. Much more driving than the local schools and still good instruction. I had a ball driving in the rain at Second Creek before it closed.